Curse

Thizzle · Apr 30, 2008, 07:41 PM // 19:41

In EoTN everything after your max title is kind of grinding if you want to consider it that. Let's assume you get 10,000 points just from beating EoTN alone in your norn reputation. Now you go and do all the dungeons, quest, and hard mode. You will get exactly 160,000 reputation points from this and that's rank 10. Unless you want titles in KoABD then you anet is kind of assuming you dedicate your allegiance to one reputation, kind of how factions was with luxon and kurzick. If you want to max all four reputation titles then your in for a long haul.

I really think these titles should be account based. I wouldn't mind grinding for that because then no matter what character I create or make, I won't have to re-grind or re-do what I did to earn those reputation points in the first place and I can go play a different allegiance. It's weird they made factions how they did and not EoTN.

It's the same with sunspear and lightbringer. It's not even considerably hard until after maybe rank 7 in sunspear and rank 4 lightbringer. This is when you start grinding Remains of Sahlahja. That's the main things you grind and that's it.

Deleet · Apr 30, 2008, 09:51 PM // 21:51

What is more important. How is GW2 going to be?
They will never remove the PvE skills and titles now, there is not really any point in discussing it. However, it may not be to late for GW2 yet. I hope you're reading this ANet. "skill > time" is a unique philosophy and it does well. There is no need to resort to the tested and working "time > skill". It is not new, and it is definitely not friendly to casual players.

I'm a student and I don't have much time. I am also a competitive person, I want to excel at games, but I can't excel at Guild Wars, because it is required to grind PvE-skill titles in order to join groups.

I could go on.

MasterSasori · Apr 30, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

What is more important. How is GW2 going to be?
They will never remove the PvE skills and titles now, there is not really any point in discussing it. However, it may not be to late for GW2 yet. I hope you're reading this ANet. "skill > time" is a unique philosophy and it does well. There is no need to resort to the tested and working "time > skill". It is not new, and it is definitely not friendly to casual players.

I'm a student and I don't have much time. I am also a competitive person, I want to excel at games, but I can't excel at Guild Wars, because it is required to grind PvE-skill titles in order to join groups.

I could go on.

Seeing how they're not interested in removing UB, fat chance on GW2 not having titles.

Also the whole purpose of the skill not time is based more on PvP than PvE with the whole PvE UB, SY!, Inverter going about.

RedNova88 · Apr 30, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Well I think it's still too early to freak out over what GW2 could be. Simply because we have yet to really know what it will be like. Since in many of the interviews it's stated more than once that not a lot is set in stone yet. We can only hope and pray that Anet will re-align themselves with their roots, otherwise we're in trouble.

Deleet · Apr 30, 2008, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedNova88

Well I think it's still too early to freak out over what GW2 could be. Simply because we have yet to really know what it will be like. Since in many of the interviews it's stated more than once that not a lot is set in stone yet. We can only hope and pray that Anet will re-align themselves with their roots, otherwise we're in trouble.

I guess this was for me.

I'm not freaking out. It seems that ANet has moved more in the direction of "time > skill". It seems plausible that they will reuse ideas from GW1 in GW2, why else would it be called a successor?

Phoenix Tears · May 01, 2008, 01:19 AM // 01:19

GW is since factions poorly only Grind Wars too me.
They made imo GW from part to party only worser with adding ever more and more bad grind and shit concepts that are crap thought out, when beign anyhow something better, than 5 Minute retarded ideas being implemented, what especially Nightfall shows...

ogre_jd · May 01, 2008, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

I'm a student and I don't have much time. I am also a competitive person, I want to excel at games, but I can't excel at Guild Wars, because it is required to grind PvE-skill titles in order to join groups.

Still can't figure out why people think that because, except maybe for those PUGs that constantly spam Local and/or abuse the Party Search (same thing, most of the time), it's not hard at all to get into PUGs, even decent ones.

pumpkin pie · May 01, 2008, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

Dude... what have you been using?
Save some for me please?

Its not that its not fun, but god dammit, imagine yourself doing all vanquish in ascalon all over again! Or the Charr areas!
If you have done it once you will NEVER want to go back to that place again.
Specially Grothmar Wardowns

lol yes you can, here you go

PS: your logic of "If you have done it once you will NEVER want to go back to that place again." which brings us back to make one character. if you so love guildwars that you make 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ,11, 12, or one thousand characters, you must love doing everything in GW to have created another character in the first place. Why did you create another character if you do not want to repeat playing guildwars? Which then brings us back to the question guild wars or grind wars, and it goes round and round and round and round..... never ending.

how to solve the problem: make one character.

Lawrence Chang · May 01, 2008, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

Being a Diablo 2 LOD veteran of 6 years I find grinding no big deal since D2lod is nothing but one long grind. I'v killed those bosses so many times it cant be counted. Guildwars grind titles atleast keep players actively doing something.

What if there was NO grinding at all? You would beat the game, and then have nothing left to do. atleast this way, you can do everything on a character, then if you still enjoy the game, repeat it with other characters. Grinding also gives you a reason to repeatedly kill monsters, which drop loot, which you sell, which gives you gold. So by the time you grind the title you've made a nice amount of plat to buy something worth while. So grinding is actually quite nice.

And this way you get a title for farming.

It could be worse. Alot worse. they could up the point values of each title by 100,000, or even into the millions. And it doesnt take that long to grind away titles.

Besides, I'v never heard someone say. "i cant pvp or gvg because I havnt finished grinding yet. This title is keeping me from getting that uber weapon to beat all weapons. I had to spend an extra 100k on that item because I didnt have this title."

Grinding is a minor issue. Loot scaling and heroes/henchies getting drops is a bigger issue than grinding IMO.

The last Rank of the Kind of a big deal title should be MC GrindMaster.

However, in Diablo 2/LOD, there was a PURPOSE in the grind, which made it fun. Rush -> CS -> Baal. That was the quickest way. Sure, there is a long grind of CS and Baal runs, but there was a purpose in that, and that was to get leveled up for more life/skill/attribute/mana points, something that will actually benefit you in PK/PvP. Seriously, compare D2 grind with GW grind. In D2, you can actually withstand it. But in GW, you get bored easily, and for what? A title that has no real effect on a character?

Bront · May 01, 2008, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrence Chang

Seriously, compare D2 grind with GW grind. In D2, you can actually withstand it. But in GW, you get bored easily, and for what? A title that has no real effect on a character?

I found D2 incredibly grindy boring after a while, even with the LOD. Meanwhile, you do get some benifit of some of the titles in GW.

Grind and it's fun are all in perspective. Achievable grind numbers usually are less of an issue, and that's in the perspective of different people. Some people like repetitive play, Some people find less repetitive ways to grind (even if slower), some people spread it out over time to make it feel less repetitive, and some people simply just avoid it.

As mentioned, it's not needed, some think it's fun, you can get to reasonable ranks of most of them with little trouble outside of normal play (R4-5 in EotN rep, R8 Sunspear), and the truly grindy ones (Drunkard, Sweet tooth, party animal, Survivor/Legendary Defender) are truly optional. There are worse grinds, and games with worse grind than GW.

Sol Deathgard · May 01, 2008, 08:32 AM // 08:32

W/o the titles (which let's be honest, what grind there is, is no where near as bad as other games like this) I would have quit playing this game a long time ago & just waited for GW2. People complain about the skills that get better with titles, but do you HAVE to use any of them? If you can honestly say that someone is standing next to you with a gun pointed at your head if you don't max those skill titles then ya, I agree it sux. but most of you aren't in a life or death situation so maxing any & all titles are completely optional. That means you don't have to do any of them if you don't want to. Don't wanna use Ursan? then don't. "but I can't pug if I don't use ursan" I see plenty of groups for uw & fow that aren't using ursan everyday, stop using that as an excuse & play the game how you want, and leave the rest of us alone.

Deleet · May 01, 2008, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

Still can't figure out why people think that because, except maybe for those PUGs that constantly spam Local and/or abuse the Party Search (same thing, most of the time), it's not hard at all to get into PUGs, even decent ones.

Think what? That we can't excel because of titles?

I don't know where and when you play, but if I wanted to find a non-pve-skill-hm group for any mission, that is pretty much impossible. The only area that has enough players to form groups, in my experience, is EotN. And they usually require Ursan skills if you're a non-monk.

About the excel point. Excel = better than other people. I can't be better than them because they spent many hours grinding.

Deleet · May 01, 2008, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrence Chang

However, in Diablo 2/LOD, there was a PURPOSE in the grind, which made it fun. Rush -> CS -> Baal. That was the quickest way. Sure, there is a long grind of CS and Baal runs, but there was a purpose in that, and that was to get leveled up for more life/skill/attribute/mana points, something that will actually benefit you in PK/PvP. Seriously, compare D2 grind with GW grind. In D2, you can actually withstand it. But in GW, you get bored easily, and for what? A title that has no real effect on a character?

These points always fail. It doesn't matter if other games have a relatively higher amount of grind.

MithranArkanere · May 02, 2008, 11:35 AM // 11:35

You can even consider having to get to level 20 a grind.

But you can do so in under 6 hours, even in less.

Some titles may take more than 3 years to anyone that plays 7..14 hours weekly. And that would be also by giving up on other titles.

Titles, like getting to level 20 or getting all skills, should be something like anyone can do in less than one year per character. Not something for a few.

BlackSephir · May 02, 2008, 11:53 AM // 11:53

I even don't want to know how can getting to lvl 20 be considered grinding when you can gain exp by killing monsters, doing missions, doing quests, even doing pvp.
Repeating and doing the same thing over and over?
Yeah, of course.

Targuil · May 02, 2008, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Even real life is grind. You must do your job to get money over and over again. And to get job, you must study a lot. Well... it's like farming or grinding levels. Just virtual vs real.

Deleet · May 02, 2008, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

I even don't want to know how can getting to lvl 20 be considered grinding when you can gain exp by killing monsters, doing missions, doing quests, even doing pvp.
Repeating and doing the same thing over and over?
Yeah, of course.

Depends on how you define grinding. Usually it is something like this:

Grinding := A repetitive action.

Some people get more easily bored than others, it first feels like grinding when it gets boring.
'Action' is a little vague, surely clicking the mouse is an action, therefore all gaming is grinding. This is, of course, untrue. It has to be some specific action, therefore the second definition is:

Grinding := A repetitive specific action.

What exactly counts as specific? It's probably best to mention 10 examples which we consider grinding and look for something that is identical in all cases. I'm too lazy to do so right now, but I can imagine that killing with the same build is specific, and therefore grinding. This will include all farming, and static-metagame PvP. I.e. where there is no change in metagame.

Paloma Song · May 02, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Titles don't bother me by themselves. I like the idea of cosmetic upgrades to characters that cost money and time but don't influence the game - I think the elite armor system in GW is spectacular and puts EQ-style loot games like WoW to shame (caveat: I play WoW too). It gives die-hards something to do and something to brag about without actually giving them an advantage over casual players. But, the titles aren't just cosmetic, and any honest person will admit that those who grind titles have a very large PvE edge over those who do not, both in terms of getting groups and succeeding in them. I consider that a sad state of affairs for a game with the mantra skill > time.

That said, I would rather have the title grind than go back to Prophecies without Factions/Nightfall. Prophecies kinda sucked. The title grinds in F/NF were minimal, and they pale beside the enormous amount of casual-friendly content the expansions introduced (particularly heroes). The real problem child is GWEN, which, save for a couple of the dungeons, turns faction grind into the endgame - bugger that, the whole game.

So no, I wouldn't give up Nightfall or Factions, especially Factions. But GWEN... you can take it back. Most of the title grind problems came in with GWEN. I'd rather have had the original Mayan campaign GWEN was spawned out of, and I'd rather have more campaigns period, than the sloppy piece of grindy crap that was GWEN.

Monk of Demise · May 02, 2008, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma Song

Titles don't bother me by themselves. I like the idea of cosmetic upgrades to characters that cost money and time but don't influence the game - I think the elite armor system in GW is spectacular and puts EQ-style loot games like WoW to shame (caveat: I play WoW too). It gives die-hards something to do and something to brag about without actually giving them an advantage over casual players. But, the titles aren't just cosmetic, and any honest person will admit that those who grind titles have a very large PvE edge over those who do not, both in terms of getting groups and succeeding in them. I consider that a sad state of affairs for a game with the mantra skill > time.

That said, I would rather have the title grind than go back to Prophecies without Factions/Nightfall. Prophecies kinda sucked. The title grinds in F/NF were minimal, and they pale beside the enormous amount of casual-friendly content the expansions introduced (particularly heroes). The real problem child is GWEN, which, save for a couple of the dungeons, turns faction grind into the endgame - bugger that, the whole game.

So no, I wouldn't give up Nightfall or Factions, especially Factions. But GWEN... you can take it back. Most of the title grind problems came in with GWEN. I'd rather have had the original Mayan campaign GWEN was spawned out of, and I'd rather have more campaigns period, than the sloppy piece of grindy crap that was GWEN.

/agree 100%

GWEN is all grind, point farming, rep books, you name it. No way i am doing this for multiple toons and enjoying it. GWEN titles need to be account based.

romeus petrus · May 02, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monk of Demise

GWEN titles need to be account based.

Better yet, GWEN title need to be removed fom the game.